JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: eb22 on March 26, 2011, 09:27:40 pm
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In the upcoming " Ask JTF" program, I'm going to ask Chaim a question regarding Moshe Feiglin. I certainly respect Chaim's viewpoint about the dangers of the Likud Party and it being very unlikely that Moshe Feiglin can be elected P.M. as a member of the Likud Party.
Having said that, I heard Moshe Feiglin speak in Cedarhurst this past Wednesday Night and was very impressed with what he had to say. The following article is in essence a sample of what Moshe Feiglin mentioned at the event in Cedarhurst:
http://www.thejewishstar.com/stories/Im-going-to-be-the-next-Prime-Minister-of-Israel,2328?content_source=&category_id=&search_filter=feiglin&event_mode=&event_ts_from=&list_type=&order_by=&order_sort=&content_class=&sub_type=&town_id=
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Why is he so stupidly stuborn on taking over likud?
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Why is he so stupidly stuborn on taking over likud?
Moshe Feiglin seems to be of the opinion that the only way he can emerge as Prime Minister is through the Likud, not through one of the smaller political parties.
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I believe that even Feiglin has given up on the idea. I'll post more later, have to run.
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Kahane-Was-Right BT , I'm definitely interested in your input on the article and the video I put together from the event in Cedarhurst this past Wednesday Night. The same with all JTF members.
My impression at this time is Moshe Feiglin believes that remaining in the Likud is the only viable solution.
Because Chaim has been proven correct on a regular basis when it comes to election predictions ( and on a multitude of other issues ), I'm skeptical that Moshe Feiglin can get to the top of the ladder in the Likud Party. But in terms of positions, Moshe Feiglin seems to agree with the core of JTF's positions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0xPBOgetz4&feature=channel_video_title
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Here is a very telling comment that Moshe feiglin included in a recent article: "We do not expect to win a political victory that will allow us to change the rules of the game in Israel. On the contrary. "
The game itself is about to change."
I think he is admitting there that he knows his strategy will not work.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/10082
He thinks that something has changed israeli society in a profound way because of recent events and so he sees a chance for them to fill that vaccuum. But unfortunately he may be grasping for straws but at very least it definitely shows that he lost hope in the prior strategy ever working without some fundamental change in society happening first. I think he reached this conclusions when bibi blocked the likud central committee elections and manhigut yehudit considered leaving likud at that time.
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Bump
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Kahane-Was-Right BT, thanks for your additional input.
I agree that the Israeli public collective line of thinking must change substantially for Moshe Feiglin to emerge as the Israeli P.M. Unfortunately though, for JTF to become a mass movement in Israel, the mindset of the Israeli public must also substantially change. While JTF has a different view point of what it will take for the right type of leadership to emerge at the top of the Israeli Government, both JTF and Moshe Feiglin are fighting against the odds. Especially since the establishment in Israel, including the media and courts, is heavily left wing. The good news is I'm convinced JTF has G-d on our side. But all of us must continue to support JTF, as we can't depend on miracles.
I heard Chaim's answer to my question on March 28, 2011 " Ask JTF" program and totally respect Chaim's point of view. While I like Moshe Feiglin ( I'm disappointed about his view point of the late and great Dr. Baruch Goldstein ), there's no question that his presence in the Likud party is helping that horrific party. That's the most problematic aspect in terms of supporting Moshe Feiglin, moving forward.
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There is an interview with Feiglin in this week's JP Magazine. Since the "car accident" of his son, he has been off the political scene.
Unfortunately Feiglin he has also become very wimpish, and is now very supportive of Pippy and others, greatly regretting having been "so hard" on them in the past.
Feigilin has joined the long list of disappointing potential right-wing leaders: he is now most definitely not "The Man"!
Feiglin would rather sit at a table with Shulamit Aloni than with Chaim! Indeed, he has gone so wimpish, that he would walk out if Chaim walked in.
Indeed, if Chaim walked in, almost everyone would walk out, including most Kachniks and Kahane Chainiks: that's an excellent sign that Chaim's on the right track!
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There is an interview with Feiglin in this week's JP Magazine. Since the "car accident" of his son, he has been off the political scene.
Unfortunately Feiglin he has also become very wimpish, and is now very supportive of Pippy and others, greatly regretting having been "so hard" on them in the past.
Stop speaking lashon hara.
He is against bibi in every one of his articles. Ever bother to read them?
Feigilin has joined the long list of disappointing potential right-wing leaders: he is now most definitely not "The Man"!
Feiglin would rather sit at a table with Shulamit Aloni than with Chaim! Indeed, he has gone so wimpish, that he would walk out if Chaim walked in.
You have no evidence for this. It's your imagination. You just make things up and spew them out of your mouth. Stop with the motzi shem ra and/or lashon hara.
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Stop speaking lashon hara.
He is against bibi in every one of his articles. Ever bother to read them?
You have no evidence for this. It's your imagination. You just make things up and spew them out of your mouth. Stop with the motzi shem ra and/or lashon hara.
I definitely agree.
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Kahane-Was-Right BT, thanks for your additional input.
I agree that the Israeli public collective line of thinking must change substantially for Moshe Feiglin to emerge as the Israeli P.M. Unfortunately though, for JTF to become a mass movement in Israel, the mindset of the Israeli public must also substantially change. While JTF has a different view point of what it will take for the right type of leadership to emerge at the top of the Israeli Government, both JTF and Moshe Feiglin are fighting against the odds. Especially since the establishment in Israel, including the media and courts, is heavily left wing. The good news is I'm convinced JTF has G-d on our side. But all of us must continue to support JTF, as we can't depend on miracles.
Very good point, eb22. However, I do think his comment is indicative of something more than what I characterized as the "very least" one could draw in conclusion. What I see is the fact that Moshe Feiglin has fallen into a delusion that is all too common amongst rightwing Jews. The idea that this latest attack was so brutal and hideous, therefore Israelis are bound to wake up and change their mind about oslo and throw out the regime because of this, is in fact a delusion and a pipe dream. Because every attack always seems that way. And then it fades into memory and it's back to business as usual, and the people accept the lies told to them by the govt that there is no choice but to negotiate and surrender etc.
It's true, the mindset of the public at large does need to change for true leadership to emerge (whether it's hayamin haamiti or in the case of manhigut yehudit), however, I see that Chaim is actively striving to bring about that change in public consciousness, whereas, it appears from Moshe's statement and a general attitude that is all too common in those circles, that this change will happen of its own accord and then he intends to react and lead in the right direction at that point. But nothing is guaranteed. And not to say that Moshe doesn't do a lot of great work, and he does have a lot of writings, but from what I see he is not doing the kind of hands-on grunt work and grassroots activism that will enliven the nation. He is watching it unfold - watching the "game change" - and hoping to step in. But what if that's not really unfolding and we are fooling ourselves like all the times in the past while the game really doesn't change by itself? And not to compare with Chaim because that's not really my point, but since we're on the subject, I see that Chaim is able to do these things, the grassroots activism and appealing strongly to the youths on a consistent basis, and he can't even step foot in Israel. Imagine what he would do if he was there!
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I pray he ends up like his beloved Fuhrer Rabin
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I pray he ends up like his beloved Fuhrer Rabin
I guess I missed it... Did he support rabin?
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I guess I missed it... Did he support rabin?
"I strongly condemn this criminal murder.. I couldn't sleep all night. A murder of a Prime Minister in Israel - the State of the Jews - was an impossible thing for me, beyond all imagination. For some reason I thought that it can't happen in our place. Something was destroyed in that night, when the Israeli society lost its innocence in the freezing smile of a psycopath."
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I understand that he said that, but it must be understood in context. Even though everyone did not love JFK most Americans were horrified at the assassination. I know you will not understand, but in a way I can forgive this in light of other things which are said about him.
For instance from the Wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moshe_Feiglin
Manhigut Yehudit as an initiative was first proposed by Feiglin and Karpel, coincidentally, on the night of Yitzchak Rabin's assassination in November 1995. Likud Chairman Benjamin Netanyahu's surprise defeat of Labor's Shimon Peres the following year on the heals of Zo Artzeinu's protests had, in Feiglin's mind, given the Oslo Accords the Israeli Right's sanction when Netanyahu shook Yasser Arafat's hand and continued the Oslo Process, giving the Israeli voter no real alternative to Oslo besides slight tactical differences toward its eventual fruition. It was at this realization that Feiglin decided to enter politics in order to formulate that alternative himself by running for the Prime Ministership directly.
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Feiglin says that the movement’s leadership will arise from "those who have a deep commitment to Torah values." Still, 30 percent of its present members are secular (2005). He opposes the surrender of what he regards as Jewish land, and has demanded the government take action against the estimated 50,000 illegal Arab structures built throughout the country. Feiglin has stated that Likud had "given up true Likud values and acquiesced in the Gaza evacuation."[5]
Feiglin has been on public record supporting the willful transfer of Arab citizens of Israel who do not accept Jewish sovereignty over the state. This emigration would be encouraged with financial incentives.
Although some of Feiglin's opponents have described him as a latter-day version of Rabbi Meir Kahane, he has stated on several occasions that he disagrees with many of Kahane's policies.[6] While Manhigut's co-founder, Shmuel Sackett, had close ties with Rabbis Meir and Binyamin Ze'ev Kahane, there is little evidence directly connecting Feiglin with Kahane, although there are several ideological similarities between them, such as supporting "induced emigration", developing a legal system more consistent with Halakha, and restricting Israeli citizenship to Jews. [7] In 2005, Feiglin took this idea a step further and suggested that all Jews who wished to be citizens of Israel, regardless of where they lived, should be given full citizenship and voting rights.[8] Feiglin and Sackett are distinguished most from traditional Kahanism through their commitment to nonviolent protest. Kahanism is often associated with militancy and a tacit acceptance of, if not outright support for, violence. Conversely, Feiglin and Sackett are also attacked in some right-wing Religious Zionist circles (including Kahane supporters) for selling out to the Likud.
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Ron has a way of making everyone a nazi.
Granted I can't. Understand how anyone can condemn amir, but that doesn't make feiglin a rabin supporter either
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The article (Jerusalem Post Magazine March 25, p14) entitled "The accidental transformation of Moshe Feiglin - the far-right Likud activist is adopting a kinder, gentler approach", states:
Feiglin admits that he was an angry person. He was bitter at the many obstacles and circumstances that have been put in his way and blocked his political rise. And he was fecociously critical of PM Netanyahu and his other adversaries.....now since the accident he says his indignation has subsided. He is more accepting , less bitter, and even has a nice thing to to say about Netanyahu...."I am not mad against anyone, certainly not Netanyahu. I am less of an angry person, because the accident put things in proportion. ....I realized after the accident that I had shot myself in the foot when I let my anger get the best of me and said things I now regret. I crossed red lines in my relations with Netanyahu....it doesn't matter who is right - you need to act differently....I should have held back...I should have absorbed the blows and not responded." He says that under the current circumstances, "Netanyau is the ideal leader.....no one can lead the country better than Netanyahu, including myself....I don't have major complaints....people will realize that his Manhigut Yehudit group in the Likud was right all along....the establishment in Judea and Samaria are now all in Likud...I am glad that people with loyal views shouldn't be in small parties...I still want to lead the country, but I don't need to be Popeye any more...I don't have to fight anyone...I don't have to hate anyone"
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTn7zNRvq5j47CVqd_6xPEa5pVK0RSdSMuK98_xGKvvUk1k7G5w7w&t=1)
With all due comiseration to him, but for a Kahanist, Feiglin's kind of milquetoast talk is kfirah.
Can you imagine true ideologues like a Rav Meir Kahane or a Chaim ben Pesach wimping out and speaking like this, no matter what their personal circumstances?
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Ron has a way of making everyone a nazi.
Yea you're right. Calling him a Nazi would be a compliment for that sub-human filth
Granted I can't. Understand how anyone can condemn amir, but that doesn't make feiglin a rabin supporter either
This dishonest insanity is the same garbage phony right wingers always drone when claim to be right wing at the same time they fanatically defend the Arab Nazi baby slaughterers against Jewish hero Baruch Goldstein and compare him to Hamas. That phony beast Feiglin defends mass murderer Rabin against freedom fighter Yigal Amir using the same arguments left-wingers always use and calls him a "psycopath" and a "criminal murderer". So what's the difference between him and your typical Rabin state worshipper? that he wears a kippa on his head?
Talking about his kippa, Feiglin is mumbling this garbage in the name of this kippah he has, as if his treacherous position represents Judaism. Torah perversion and distrotion are worse than murder. So even if Yigal Amir was, G-d forbid, a criminal murderer as this frog-faced beast calls him, he would still have a place in the World to Come. But a so-called religious Jew who twists Torah in the name of secular Zionism doesn't
I understand that he said that, but it must be understood in context. Even though everyone did not love JFK most Americans were horrified at the assassination. I know you will not understand, but in a way I can forgive this in light of other things which are said about him.
HOW DARE YOU compare Yigal Amir's unimagineable sacrifice to save the Jews from the second Holocaust Rabin was perpetrating to that worthless pig's assasination? you think Jewish life and land are pick-up sticks you can play with and sacrifice in the name of your holy Hellenist democracy and tolerance?
We just celebrated Purim. Mordechai killed Haman who did not murder a single Jew. Yigal slayed a ruthless Qaddafist dictator who murdered THOUSANDS OF JEWS (including Holocaust survivors who had all of their families murdered in the Nazi Holocaust) and if not for Yigal, none of the Israeli posters of this forum would be here to see "experts" like you and KWR cynically discussing our right to exist from your strategic location in Brooklyn and California
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The article (Jerusalem Post Magazine March 25, p14) entitled "The accidental transformation of Moshe Feiglin - the far-right Likud activist is adopting a kinder, gentler approch", states:
Feiglin admits that he was an angry person. He was bitter at the many obstacles and circumstances that have been put in his way and blocked his political rise. And he was fecociously critical of PM Netanyahu and his other adversaries.....now since the accident he says his indignation has subsided. He is more accepting , less bitter, and even has a nice thing to to say about Netanyahu...."I am not mad anyone, certainly not Netanyahu. I am less of an angry person, because the accident put things in proportion. ....I realized after the accident that I had shot myself in the foot when I let my anger get the best of me and said things I now regret. I crossed red lines in my relations with Netanyahu....it doesn't matter who is right - you need to act differently....I should have held back...I should have absorbed the blows and not responded." He says that under the current circumstances, "Netanyau is the ideal leader.....no one can lead the country better than Netanyahu, including myself....I don't have major complaints....people will realize that his Manhigut Yehudit group in the Likud was right all along....the establishment in Judea and Samaria are now all in Likud...I am glad that people with loyal views shouldn't be in small parties...I still want to lead the country, but I don't need to be Popeye any more...I don't have to fight anyone...I don't have to hate anyone"
I think I'm going to be sick.
It is clear that moshe has been traumatized. I wish him and his son a refuah shelema.
He is clearly unfit to lead and there is no question anymore that the manhigut yehudit delusion must be abandoned.
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Also I apologize wonga because you were right about this as you have proven.
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All I hear is complaints and complaints and more complaints. Yet there is nobody in the political system which meets all the qualifications of a 'Kahanist' candidate. So what are we supposed to do? Just sit on our hands and not support anyone in the current Israeli government. I fully understand that we cannot show weakness but how do we exist in a political system? Currently Israel is a democratic system and short of a civil war I suspect it will still be a democratic system tomorrow. I also realize that the Israeli system is not an ideal democratic system since it is derived from a communist system which does not allow any party to wield enough power to actually change anything.
I would be interested in hearing the positive developments instead of constantly hearing the negatives. Moshe has seemed to have been a good candidate who was moving in the right direction. I thought it would be beneficial to support candidates who somewhat support Kahanist ideas such as relocating the arabs who currently occupy Israel. But I had no illusion that Moshe would rise to the level of a Chaim or any other open Kahanist leader. I am looking toward a slow evolution of politics in Israel instead of an immediate revolution...
Please don't be so argumentative if I don't quite see things the way you do. It would be best if you presented your opinion and allowed others to digest it...
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This was Feiglin at his best in early 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RlIuywN5WQ
The "car accident" of his son has unforunately taken him out of the political equation.
Although throwing in with the Likud was a gross error by him, his presence as a gadfly in that neveiloh party served a purpose, of sorts.
If he had thrown in his lot with Ichud Leumi, or before that Marzel's party, he would have done well.
But being a born-Israeli, like all Israelis, Feiglin is none too smart and is hobbled by an overweening massive ego.
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All I hear is complaints and complaints and more complaints. Yet there is nobody in the political system which meets all the qualifications of a 'Kahanist' candidate. So what are we supposed to do? Just sit on our hands and not support anyone in the current Israeli government. I fully understand that we cannot show weakness but how do we exist in a political system? Currently Israel is a democratic system and short of a civil war I suspect it will still be a democratic system tomorrow. I also realize that the Israeli system is not an ideal democratic system since it is derived from a communist system which does not allow any party to wield enough power to actually change anything.
I would be interested in hearing the positive developments instead of constantly hearing the negatives. Moshe has seemed to have been a good candidate who was moving in the right direction. I thought it would be beneficial to support candidates who somewhat support Kahanist ideas such as relocating the arabs who currently occupy Israel. But I had no illusion that Moshe would rise to the level of a Chaim or any other open Kahanist leader. I am looking toward a slow evolution of politics in Israel instead of an immediate revolution...
Please don't be so argumentative if I don't quite see things the way you do. It would be best if you presented your opinion and allowed others to digest it...
This very capitulationist.
I very much liked Moshe Feiglin, but if he views bibi as an acceptable leader and the best one to lead Israel, he has become too mamlachti to have any impact and is simply unfit to lead. How can one not complain? Up until this point feiglin was one of the only ones who was against oslo as a principle and dedicated to stopping it, even from within the system as he was trying to do. Now with comments he has made recently, he has simply become another enabler of the regime who pretends that bibi is rightwing. Its like he has completely transformed. How can anyone be ok with this?
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This very capitulationist.
I very much liked Moshe Feiglin, but if he views bibi as an acceptable leader and the best one to lead Israel, he has become too mamlachti to have any impact and is simply unfit to lead. How can one not complain? Up until this point feiglin was one of the only ones who was against oslo as a principle and dedicated to stopping it, even from within the system as he was trying to do. Now with comments he has made recently, he has simply become another enabler of the regime who pretends that bibi is rightwing. Its like he has completely transformed. How can anyone be ok with this?
I don't quite understand how you can say what I said was 'capitulationist'? What am I surrendering?
My point is that we must have someone who represents us. Who is that at this time?
My other point is that by always pointing out the negative instead of strengthening the positive we may be left with nobody.
Is it realistic to dream that we will wake up and Chaim will be PM of Israel? Is it any more realistic to believe that the 3rd Temple will come down from Heaven? Something MUST be done within the framework of the current system of government in Israel.
I just want to know what the 'big view' of this is...
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Earlier today, someone sent me the following article after I raised doubts about Moshe Feiglin to him. While I still am uncomfortable with Feiglin's involvement in the Likud Party, at least in this article / link, Feiglin clearly didn't think much of Bibi's leadership:
http://www.jewishisrael.org/eng_contents/articles/70/article7024.html
Bibi's Slippery Slope
By Moshe Feiglin
19 Shvat, 5770 (Jan. 21, '10)
In its Friday edition, the Makor Rishon newspaper cited senior American sources reporting that Netanyahu has already surrendered almost everything; the Golan, almost all of Judea and Samaria, Jerusalem and the Temple Mount, even some areas inside Israel's 1967 border. In exchange, the State of Israel will be allowed to keep a few settlement blocs. And what has Netanyahu achieved for Israel in exchange for this far-reaching agreement in principle? Nothing. Certainly not peace and not even international recognition that Israel is a Jewish state.
This is not really earth-shattering news. For years, we have been warning that Netanyahu is liable to drag us down a slippery slope. In the end, Netanyahu will not get the settlement blocs. But he will have succeeded in violating the integrity of Israel's 1967 borders.
The simple and sad truth is that the only thing preventing this collapse is Arab intransigence. The Arabs, it turns out, really do not want a state. None other than British Foreign Secretary Ernest Bevin, not exactly known for his affection for Jews, stated to the British Parliament in 1947: "To the Jews, the essential point of principle is the creation of a sovereign Jewish State. To the Arabs, the essential point of principle is to resist to the last the establishment of Jewish sovereignty in any part of Palestine."
Nothing has changed in the 63 years that have passed since then. The main goal of the Arabs who live in the Land of Israel is to prevent us, the Jews, from having a Jewish state. They do not want their own state. If they really did want one, they could have had it many times over. They have consistently sabotaged every golden opportunity for a state offered them by Israel, with the support of the entire world.
What then, is wrong with Netanyahu's strategy? Maybe he is right when he agrees to surrender everything, leaving the Arabs to once again refuse and appear intransigent?
That may be fine in an anonymous battle of wits. But when the prime minister of Israel agrees to surrender Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel and Jerusalem, it has far reaching and serious implications. No other leader in the world would dare commit such an act. On the practical plane as well, Netanyahu is playing with fire. When Arafat, alone in exile in Tunis, felt he had no choice, he "accepted" the idea of "peace" – at least for the cameras. He got what he wanted and then, of course, surprised the world with his continued campaign of murderous violence. Likewise, Abu Mazen does not want a state, but if the Americans force it down his throat, he just may take it.
If that happens, G-d forbid, it would mean that the only territory in the world that does not have an official sovereign today – Judea and Samaria – will be internationally recognized as non-Jewish territory. The Nation of Israel will have officially surrendered the inheritance that it received from the Creator and that was recognized as such by the nations of the world.
Nationalist Attorney Elyakim Haetzni writes as follows:
"'Fate' or Divine Providence has left the Chosen Land open for the Chosen People, as there is no state in the world that has 'right of return' to Yesha according to international law. The Jordanians invaded and in 1988 they surrendered their claim; the British Mandate that preceded them no longer exists; the Turkish, in the Treaty of Lausanne, surrendered their rights and the Marmelukes are in the museum. All that is still valid, so long as there is no other sovereign, is the mandate that recognized the historical rights of the Jewish nation to re-establish its national home in the Land of Israel and instructed the British to 'encourage dense settlement on the ground, including state lands.' Thus, we are still the rightful owner, and only the rightful owner can surrender his rights.
If, however, a Palestinian state is established with Israel's consent, our land will be considered 'Palestinian'. Afterwards, when the Palestinians breach the agreement and the IDF will once again conquer Shechem, we will always be forced to retreat, because it will be 'Palestinian land.' Nazi Germany was destroyed, but it was exchanged for 'a different Germany,' because it was still 'German Land.'
Woe to the Jewish leader whose name will go down in history as the person responsible for turning Israel's land into Palestinian land. There are Jews who would prefer to die rather than be responsible for such a historical catastrophe, equal to all the physical dangers facing us put together."
In the meantime, "fate" or Divine Providence has saved the Promised Land for the Jews. But in Gush Katif we learned that Divine Providence also expects us to take practical action. We are not on the high, Biblical level of "G-d will fight for you, and you remain silent." And as we know from our Sages, we must not rely on miracles.
Sadly, Netanyahu is not among those Jews who would "prefer to die rather than be responsible for such a historical catastrophe." If given the opportunity, he will certainly send this particular historical catastrophe our way. Clearly, he must be replaced – and the sooner the better.
And now for the good news. The past months have seen a tremendous surge in registration for the Likud. Soon, Israel's political system will emerge from its winter hibernation and that is traditionally the time for political crises – both inside and outside the Likud. We do not know exactly when the Likud members will once again be casting their votes for the new leader of their party. We do know, however, that this scenario will take place and it is very possible that it will happen sooner than we think. Those people who register for the Likud now will be perfectly positioned to prevent the re-election of the same "catastrophe."
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I just noticed that the accident involving Moshe Feiglin's son was in the summer of 2010. I previously thought it was in the summer of 2009. Hence, the article I posted a few minutes ago was BEFORE the accident.
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The article (Jerusalem Post Magazine March 25, p14) entitled "The accidental transformation of Moshe Feiglin - the far-right Likud activist is adopting a kinder, gentler approach", states:
Feiglin admits that he was an angry person. He was bitter at the many obstacles and circumstances that have been put in his way and blocked his political rise. And he was fecociously critical of PM Netanyahu and his other adversaries.....now since the accident he says his indignation has subsided. He is more accepting , less bitter, and even has a nice thing to to say about Netanyahu...."I am not mad against anyone, certainly not Netanyahu. I am less of an angry person, because the accident put things in proportion. ....I realized after the accident that I had shot myself in the foot when I let my anger get the best of me and said things I now regret. I crossed red lines in my relations with Netanyahu....it doesn't matter who is right - you need to act differently....I should have held back...I should have absorbed the blows and not responded." He says that under the current circumstances, "Netanyau is the ideal leader.....no one can lead the country better than Netanyahu, including myself....I don't have major complaints....people will realize that his Manhigut Yehudit group in the Likud was right all along....the establishment in Judea and Samaria are now all in Likud...I am glad that people with loyal views shouldn't be in small parties...I still want to lead the country, but I don't need to be Popeye any more...I don't have to fight anyone...I don't have to hate anyone"
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTn7zNRvq5j47CVqd_6xPEa5pVK0RSdSMuK98_xGKvvUk1k7G5w7w&t=1)
With all due comiseration to him, but for a Kahanist, Feiglin's kind of milquetoast talk is kfirah.
Can you imagine true ideologues like a Rav Meir Kahane or a Chaim ben Pesach wimping out and speaking like this, no matter what their personal circumstances?
wonga66 , is there an Internet link to this article? I want to send this to a Moshe Feiglin supporter, with him seeing the actual article.
If there isn't a link, if you could scan the article from it's actual page, it would certainly be appreciated.
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Here is a link to the "Accidental transformation of Moshe Feiglin" article http://www.jpost.com/Magazine/Features/Home.aspx
But the verminous "Geriatric Post" wants $ out of you to read it!
So I'll scan it for you:
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pt3 of Feiglin article below: "No one can lead the country better than Netanyahu, including myself"! (Moshe Feiglin, March 2011).
To have undergone such a volte-face in his ideology and core belief system, Feiglin must either 1) have had a complete mental breakdown, 2) been bribed with $, 3) have been threatened, or 4) have been soft & rotten to the core ab initio, like almost all Sabras, but we just didn't realise it!
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Marzel flays the Likud here, and presumably in his last sentence includes Feiglin!
http://www.sos-israel.com/48796.html
"The Likud is a Danger to Israel
Only the Likud could evict Jews, only the Likud could establish (G-d forbid) a Palestinian state. Nothing good has come from the Likud; not in the field of education, not in the field of economics, not in Judaism and not in security. Whoever is counted as a Likud member today and strengthens it- is a partner to all the evils that the Likud does and plans to do
Baruch Marzel- Our Land of Israel
When Begin rose to power, I was very happy. When I expressed my joy to Rabbi Kahane, HY"D, he told me that I do not understand anything; that at the bottom line, there is no difference between Peres and Begin: both surrender to American pressure, both are equally dangerous. It took me years to realize how right he was.
After decades of Left rule, the Right managed to elect the Likud government, but instead of ruling, Begin handed over the reins to the Supreme Court with the announcement "there are judges in Yerushalayim."
In the other power centers of the left - communications, economics and defense, Begin refused to make changes, as is done with the ′changing of the guards′ in the U.S. government; in fact, even when a Likud candidate is elected prime minister, the left continues to control and lead, through the officials in the ministries.
On the rooftops of Yamit it came to me: the Left talks about ceding territories, but the Right is the one to carry it out. The Camp David Accords, signed by the Likud, are the prototype of all territory cessions. They are the archetype. What Begin is allowed to do, so are Rabin and others.
The Likud gave away Sinai, which is more than double the size of today′s Israel, at Camp David. For the first time, tens of yishuvim were uprooted, and thousands were expelled from their homes. The oil and gas fields, desperately needed to boost our economy, were handed over to Egypt. Begin also brought the enemy so much closer to the heart of the country. Until then, the Egyptian Army would need 12 hours to get to the center of the country. After ceding Sinai, it could take one hour of travel to get to the middle of the country.
All these concessions were made to get a piece of paper that today we realize what it is worth. But Begin didn′t stop there. He added a great bonus to our enemies: for the first time he acknowledged the rights of the Arabs (aka Palestinians) for autonomy and self definition. By doing this he wrought tragedy upon us, legitimizing the Left to bring the Oslo disaster upon us, based on the begin Likud government′s precedent.
Despite all the failures, the Likud continued to realize the Meretz ideology. Netanyahu signed the failing Chevron Accords and the Wye Accords, which brought unbridled terror into the city centers. It was only after two years that the Operation Defensive Sheild was implemented and the terror stopped.
However, as a fool who repeats his foolish acts, the Likud continued and committed the sin of the expulsion from Gush Katif, and caused Hamastan to be set up in Gaza. From there, there, the center of the country is in danger of missile attack.
This wasn′t a strong enough lesson for Netanyahu and the Likud leaders. Contrary to everything he taught, promised and wrote, he announced at his Bar Ilan Address that he supports a state for the terrorists. Netanyahu is the first ever to totally freeze construction in Yehuda, Shomron and Yerushalayim (what was frozen will be up for negotiation). He boasted to the German Prime Minister that in the time that he is in power, the least homes have been built in Yesha and Yerushalayim. Nowadays he is helping the terrorist state be established, while planning the mass and unilateral cession from Yehuda and Shomron. All the above is the exact opposite of what he proclaimed, believed and wrote all the years.
There is no escaping the conclusion that the Likud is a disaster for Eretz Yisroel and the Jewish Nation. Only the Likud can expel Jews, only the Likud can set up a Palestinian State. Nothing good ever came out of the Likud, and nothing good will ever come out of them. Not in education, not in economics, not in strengthening Judaism and not in security.
Those who are counted in the Likud and empower the party is a partner in all their crimes, past, present and future."
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Everyone who thinks Feiglin is such a big, bad rightist needs to remember how he slandered the heroes Amir and Dr. Goldstein.
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wonga66, thanks for scanning the pages and sharing it with us.