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Torah and Jewish Idea => Torah and Jewish Idea => Topic started by: Dan Ben Noah on April 08, 2012, 02:11:34 pm
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Shalom
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As it is obvious according to these Halachas that Rambam believes in a Spiritual world. One where Angels exist with form but no material existence... I would like a Rational explanation about how a form can exist without a physical manifestation...
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As it is obvious according to these Halachas that Rambam believes in a Spiritual world. One where Angels exist with form but no material existence... I would like a Rational explanation about how a form can exist without a physical manifestation...
Math, physics, laws.
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Math, physics, laws.
You then explain angels as Math Physics and Laws?
See Mishneh Torah...
Halacha 3
Everything which the Holy One, blessed be He, created within His world is divided into three categories. They include:
a) Creations which are a combination of matter and form. They are constantly coming into existence and ceasing to exist; for example, the bodies of man and beasts, plants, and metals.
b) Creations which are [also] a combination of matter and form, but do not change from body to body and from form to form as those in the first category. Rather, their form is permanently fixed in their matter, and they do not change as the others do; for example, the spheres and the stars [which revolve] in them. The matter [from which] they [are composed] differs from [a simple conception of] matter, and their form differs from [a simple conception of] form.
c) Creations which have form, but no matter at all; for example, the angels, for the angels do not possess bodies or corporeal being, but rather are forms which are separate from each other.
Halacha 4
What is meant by the prophets' statements that they saw an angel of fire or with wings? All these are prophetic visions and parables, as [Deuteronomy 4:24] states: "G-d, your Lord, is consuming fire," though He is not fire and [the description of Him in this manner] is only metaphoric. Similarly, [Psalms 104:4] states: "He makes His angels as winds...."
Halacha 5
Since they possess no body, what separates the form [of the angels] from each other? Their existence is not alike. Rather each one is below the level of the other and exists by virtue of its influence, [in a progression of levels,] one above the other.
Everything exists by virtue of the influence of the Holy One, blessed be He, and His goodness. Solomon alluded to this [concept] in his wisdom, saying (Ecclesiastes 5:7): "Because above the one who is high there is a watcher [and there are others higher than them]."
Halacha 6
The expression "below the level of the other" does not refer to height in a spatial sense as [one might say], he is sitting higher than his colleague, [but rather, in regard to spiritual level]. For example, when speaking about two sages, one of whom is greater than the other, we say, "one is above the level of the other." Similarly, a cause is referred to as "above" the effect [it produces].
Halacha 7
The different names with which the angels are called reflect their [spiritual] levels. Thus, they are called:
1) The holy chayyot, who are above all the others;
2) the ofanim;
3) the er'elim;
4) the chashmalim;
5) the serafim;
6) the mal'achim;
7) the elohim;
8 ) the sons of the elohim;
9) the keruvim;
10) the ishim.
These ten names which are used to refer to the angels reflect their ten [different spiritual] levels. The level above which there is no higher level except that of G-d, blessed be He, is that of the form called chayyot. Therefore, the prophets state that they are below G-d's throne of glory.
The tenth [and lowest] level is that of the form called ishim. They are the angels who communicate with the prophets and are perceived by them in prophetic visions. Therefore, they are called ishim, (“men”), because their level is close to the level of human knowledge.
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Dan I hope your not spending time translating the books they are available http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/682956/jewish/Mishneh-Torah.htm
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You then explain angels as Math Physics and Laws?
See Mishneh Torah...
I gave examples.
And please explain what you highlighted-
" c) Creations which have form, but no matter at all; for example, the angels, for the angels do not possess bodies or corporeal being, but rather are forms which are separate from each other."
We see these are not physical beings, but beings in the realm of thought. Each angel is its own seperate entity as is each individual thought and each law. Their are different categories of angels each revealing the brilliance of the creator and each giving praises to G-D on their level by revealing His Majesty.
See for example but one small example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbsX12oI_K8&feature=player_embedded
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See the above section concerning how we know how Prophecy works. And how the prophecy of Moses differed from the later prophets.
What is the difference between Moses' prophecy and that of all the other prophets? [Divine insight is bestowed upon] all the [other] prophets in a dream or vision. Moses, our teacher, would prophesy while standing awake, as [Numbers 7:89] states: "When Moses came into the Tent of Meeting to speak to Him, he heard the Voice speaking to him."
[Divine insight is bestowed upon] all the [other] prophets through the medium of an angel. Therefore, they perceive only metaphoric imagery and allegories. Moses, our teacher, [would prophesy] without the medium of an angel, as [Numbers 12:8] states: "Mouth to mouth I speak to him," and [Exodus 33:11] states: "And G-d spoke to Moses face to face." [Numbers 12:8] states: "He gazes upon the image of G-d" - i.e., there was no metaphor. Rather, he would perceive the matter in its fullness, without metaphor or allegory. The Torah testifies concerning him [Numbers 12:8]: ["I speak to him...] manifestly, without allegory." His appreciation of prophecy would not be through metaphor, but through open revelation, appreciating the matter in its fullness. All the [other] prophets are overawed, terrified, and confounded [by the revelations they experience], but Moses, our teacher, would not [respond in this manner], as [Exodus 33:11] relates: "[G-d spoke to Moses...] as a man speaks to a friend" - i.e., just as a person will not be awe-struck from hearing his friend's words, so, too, Moses' mental power was sufficient to comprehend the words of prophecy while he was standing in a composed state.
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Thanks for posting the Rambam Dan!